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Need to Connect or Pass through 6" wood stove Chimney Pipe

Started by warreng5995, October 17, 2020, 08:13:08 pm

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warreng5995

October 17, 2020, 08:13:08 pm Last Edit: October 17, 2020, 08:16:45 pm by warreng5995
Hi, I just purchased a Wiseway Pellet stove a few weeks ago ;D. Have questions....

The Stove exhaust is 3", but from what I've read if my chimney is more than 12 ft, I need to adapt that up to 4" pipe for a better draft? Right? I'm assuming that the 3" to 4" adapter would be connect directly to the top of the stove??

The wood stove chimney in our home (which we installed about 6 years ago) is a 6" ID double wall pipe. It's about 16ft from the stove itself, through the ceiling, and up to the cap.

I've looked at the different Install options that are listed in the manual. And I'm currently trying to figure out a couple things.

#1 I'm already pretty sure I can't do this method, and that is to just adapt a 4" pellet pipe to the 6" wood stove pipe. As in run 4" up to the ceiling, then install a 4" to 6" adapter. Yes, I know this is easily done with the pipe itself. But from what I've read connecting the Wiseway to a 6" pipe may slow the draft too much? If it won't slow the draft too much, this would be the easy choice as all I would need is a couple pipes and an adapter.

#2 If I can't adapt to the 6" pipe. Then I guess my next choices are either to:
*A - Go through the wall? Not sure if that is better?? As I've also read that (I think) I would still have to run more pipe to at least get it above my gutters?? If I have to get it above the roof then this is obviously no good, as the current chimney would work better / easier.

**B - Or to run a 4" pipe all the way up through the existing 6" chimney.

If I run through (or connect to) my current wood stove 6" chimney. Then because of this stoves design, and the location in the ceiling of our current chimney, I will have to use two 45 degree elbows (or 90 degree elbows which I'm assuming would be worse?) in order to move the stove out away from the wall and corner of the room, as it would be blocked in and not accessible.

As the chimney connection in the ceiling is to close to the wall to run the pipe straight up from the stove. Especially since it is also in the corner of the room, we have to turn the Wiseway diagonal to the corner, in order to be able to access the firebox, ash pan and ect, and also to load pellets. Since the exhaust exit on the stove is also on that same side, it just moves it further from the chimney connection in the ceiling.

Also if I go this route, I haven't be able to find any "adapter" plates that would allow a 4" double wall pellet pipe to PASS THROUGH (not connect to) the current 6" ceiling box.
I would need one such "adapter" for the inside of the house where the ceiling box is. Then I would need another I guess for the top of the chimney. Do these exist?? Do I need to make my own adapters?? Or is there another better method??

Also what about the chimney cap? Do I stay with the 6" cap, or do I need a 4" cap??

Any help would be greatly appreciated! As I'm going to need this stove up and running in just a couple weeks.
Thanks
Warren

Jaron

Hi,

Yes, use 3" to 4" adapter right above the stove. I never suggest using 3" pipe but I never have used it. I would go through your 6" using the two 45s. As far as the boxes to cover up the 6", I think normal 4" flashing will work on the roof and for the ceiling wouldn't the 4" box cover up the 6" pipe? You will have to use a metal cutter to mod the shape of both if you want them symmetrical. I am just a fan and user of the wiseway, I created this site for users to help other users but so far I am the only one answering.

Use a 4" cap with the 4" pipe and 4" flashing to cover up the 6" pipe on the roof. Use the two 45s and a 4" box to cover the 6" pipe inside. Please take pictures and send them to this post with details when you are finished for others to use.

If you are interested, here is product catalog PDF for pellet pipe, there are 4 to 6 adapters but I don't see a pass through other than just using a normal box and cutting a hole if necessary.


Jaron
Currently burning the Wiseway Camp Stove prototype

warreng5995

Hey Jaron! You're just a fan and you made this site?? :o  I thought this was the "official" wiseway forum!  ;D Might as well be, not a lot of info out there on this stove. Most of what I have been able to find is just "infomercials" so to speak, which were fine when I was looking for general info on the stove. Installation is a different game though.

Anyway, Thanks for all the tips, and for the PDF. I think going through the original 6" chimney with the two 45's is the way to go too. Guess I'll still need to cut a hole in the wall for a fresh air intake... which I also still have to purchase.
And Yes, I'll try to take some pics and post them when its complete.

Thanks for the reply and info,
Warren

warreng5995

Uhmm... Here is another question...
On the Exterior, Does the Vent Pipe have to extend all the way above the peak of the house roof? like a wood stove normally does?? Or once thorough the roof, can it just go up a foot or two??
Why I ask, I saw some diagrams from Pellet Vent Pro, which seem to show it just going "at least" 12 inches from the roof surface where it passes through. They said nothing about the roof peak or ect.

Jaron

Yes just a fan but I worked at Smokey's Stoves for two years. I think you need both, to be over 12" above the roof and also above or farther than 12' away from the peak which may actually be a local code for venting solid fuel.

Unless you are in Canada or a mobile home, you don't need fresh air intake.
Currently burning the Wiseway Camp Stove prototype

warreng5995

Ok, so if the top of the chimney is more than 12' away from the roof horizontally... Hummm...

I was asking about this because we have a steep roof... whoever built this small house (30W x 40L) put a 7/12 pitch roof (or around there) on it for whatever reason. No way to walk on it as its too steep, and its a metal roof too so its slippery. And because the roof is so steep, for the chimney to go all the way up above the peak, makes it ridiculously tall. We had to build a wooden platform, which we haul up a ladder with a rope thrown over the house and pulled from the other side, just so we can stand on the platform in order to reach the top of the chimney so we could clean it with a rods and wire brush.

From what I understand from what I have been researching... On our wood stoves (we've have tried 2 different ones here due to the issues), because the chimney is so tall (to get enough distance between it and the roof) and because the chimney is located on the outer wall instead of toward to the roof peak (like shown in the attacked diagram... ours would be the X one),
You cannot see attachments on this board.

this leaves a large portion of the chimney exposed outside above the roof. Even though the pipes are all double wall, the amount of pipe exposed to the cold causes the smoke to cool faster and in turn causes creosote to build up in the chimney very quickly.  At times we had to clean the chimney pipes about every 3 weeks because they would be so much build up the stove just wouldn't burn. Its one thing to clean the chimney once a season when you can pick the best day to do so, its about a 2 hour job. But it really sucks to clean it every 3 weeks or so, especially when its freezing, snow, raining, and/or windy, and the house is cold because the stove won't burn. Have had a wood stove at most of the places we have lived... never had so many issues until this house with this chimney.

We are hoping the pellet stove would solve this issue with the creosote build up, as they produce far less than a wood stove. But now with realizing the problems with the chimney, I'm starting to wonder. I also had a bad head injury nearly 2 years ago, which has caused other health issues I've had to deal with ever since. One of which later caused me to severely break my leg about 14 months ago, which took two surgeries to "fix", but I still deal with pain daily. In anycase, I can't go to the woods gather, cut, and split firewood anymore. Hard enough to walk on a level floor at times, let alone taking a chance trying to climb over limbs, unlevel ground, or ect out in the woods. Anyway... this is another of the reasons we're switching to a pellet stove.

Wasn't sure about the fresh air intake. Never had one before on a wood burner before, but seemed like the manual and "pellet stove videos" said one was needed if a fresh air source wasn't within 24". Don't want to cut a hole in the wall if its not needed. This is the first pellet stove we've had, so a bit of a learning curve I guess.

Thanks again for the reply, if nothing else this gives me a reference I can come back too.
Thanks

Jaron

Once the wiseway gets going, a longer pipe will not be an issue, the 12' away horizontally from the roof or above the peak is critical for getting proper draw though. Probably especially with a steep roof it may block wind flow.
Currently burning the Wiseway Camp Stove prototype

customer

We have just purchased a wiseway and have a similar problem.  We are replacing a wood stove with a 6 in chimney pipe.  We will need 48 inches of pipe to reach the ceiling and currently there is 67 inches of pipe above the roof. There is a cathedral ceiling.  The easiest for us would be to run the 4 in pipe inside the 6 in pipe if it will fit so we don't have to change the part that runs through the ceiling.  Is it better to use 4" pipe and adapt to that diameter right at the top of the stove or to use 3" pipe for the whole run?

Jaron

Quote from: customer on November 07, 2020, 04:58:45 pmWe have just purchased a wiseway and have a similar problem.  We are replacing a wood stove with a 6 in chimney pipe.  We will need 48 inches of pipe to reach the ceiling and currently there is 67 inches of pipe above the roof. There is a cathedral ceiling.  The easiest for us would be to run the 4 in pipe inside the 6 in pipe if it will fit so we don't have to change the part that runs through the ceiling.  Is it better to use 4" pipe and adapt to that diameter right at the top of the stove or to use 3" pipe for the whole run?

Adapt 3 to 4" right above the stove. Then use 4" to go through the 6".
Currently burning the Wiseway Camp Stove prototype

warreng5995

November 15, 2020, 06:50:15 pm #9 Last Edit: November 16, 2020, 03:40:55 pm by warreng5995 Reason: added words :-)
I said I would post and update, so I thought tonight would be a good time.
We got our stove installed and have been running it for couple weeks now. It runs about 17 hours at around 400F on one 40lb bag of pellets. All we have locally available here are premium oak pellets, as that is what mostly grown in Missouri, but they seem to be good quality with only a small amount of dust. It has taken some getting used to, and adjusting, but so far we like our Wiseway stove.



Had to run the chimney a bit differently than originally planned, as the way we had originally intended to run the pipe we found would have pushed the stove way out in the floor, but worked it out in the end.

We wanted to maintain as good of draft as possible, but we also had to get our stove out away from the wall so it was easier to access and fill. We didn't want to use 90's and have to use horizonal pipe. So instead we used two 45's and angled the pipe. Draft seems to be doing great.



We ran the 4" Duravent Pellet Vent Pro pipe up through our original 6" wood stove chimney. So from outside, all you see is the original wood stove chimney pipe. We made an adapter plate for the top of the chimney to hold the pellet vent centered inside the 6" wood stove chimney. This adapter also held the entire weight of the pellet vent until we attached it to the stove, so now its held by the stove and our adapter.

I didn't think about getting a photo of the adapter at the time, but basically we cut off the end of a pellet pipe that was damaged in shipping, and used that to lock onto the top of the pellet pipe running up to the top of our existing chimney. We made a circular ring, which the outer edge fit inside our chimney cap adapter, and it sits on a small ledge the chimney cap adapter had inside it. We welded that ring onto the locking end pellet pipe we cut off, and that was our adapter.

When I pushed the pellet vent up through our existing wood stove chimney, I held it up until my Dad was able to lock on our adapter onto the top end of the pellet vent. At that point, we lowered the pellet vent until our pellet vent adapter sat inside our chimney cap adapter. At that time, it held the entire weight of our pellet vent. We later attached the rest of the chimney, and connected it to the stove. I had to make another short adapter to extend the exhaust of the stove, as we were about 4" short. I attached that adapter to the Duravent Appliance adapter, and it was all connected.




We used the original burn basket in the stove for several days, but even after adjusting the basket to its smallest gap settings per the manual, and with the draft door on the stove wide open, the stove still stayed around 400 to 450 degrees. Which made our house stay around 80F. Which was hotter than we need, and as such just means we are burning more pellets than need be.

So we purchased the "low temperature" V-basket from smokey stoves hoping it would help some... very disappointed, they did a fairly poor job of fabricating it. It wouldn't even fit into the basket space in stoves firebox. And it was only welded on one side of the rods. I emailed smokey stoves but got no response. I wasn't going to send it back with their 50% restocking fee. For $65 I certainly expected more.
Usually I would make something like this myself, but at the moment I didn't have wire to weld stainless, and I didn't really have the time to fool with it. Now I wish I had of just waited until I had time.

**Original Burn Basket


**V Burn Basket


**Comparison of Both Burn Baskets:



**No welds on back side of rods... should have cleaned my finger nails  :-[ ;D 



Anyway, I took a chance and put it in my vice and bent it inward so it would fit the space in the firebox, I was afraid it was going to break with the crappy welds. But it didn't and I got it to fit.

In any case, in the end it still didn't work. We used it for a day, and fiddled with adjusting the stove most of the day. But with the draft door fully closed (maximum draft) the flame would go out for a few seconds, then it would relight. You could hear it doing this every 10 to 20 seconds. Sometimes the flame would be out for 10 seconds at a time. Could only get the stove at highest around 300 degrees, which is the bare min temp according to the manual. I took off the door where the torch goes, and left that open to get it to heat up some and it eventually would stop puffing. It might have gotten up to 400f. But put the door back on, and it dropped back to 300f for the High. This started making creosote inside the stove, and ash began to build up in the pipe behind the draft door. Later around midnight it went down 250F and basically went out. We shut the pellet flow off and let it go cold. The next morning, we cleaned everything out, put in the original fire basket, and started the stove back up.

That was yesterday. Stove ran fine for the rest of the day. Then today we noticed the temp was dropping below 400f, and the draft didn't seem right. So we shut the stove down again, pulled out everything again (firebox, secondary burn plate, and ash box) cleaned it and the pipe behind the draft door. Then we used a leaf blower and blew out the entire chimney. Quite a bit of ash shot out the top of the chimney. Also could still see some creosote around the firebox from the V basket burn.
After cleaning, put everything back together and started it up again, and it seems to be back to burning like it was originally. It is staying between 400f to 450f

So, already had an ash vac on order. As well as a lithium Milwaukee M18 leaf blower, which home depot has a great deal on right now ($200) and it comes with two 4.0amph lithium M18 batteries and a charger. Which is great because we have other M18 tools which use these same batteries. And if we bought just the 4.0 amp hour batteries, those alone cost $125 Each.

**Link to Home Depot page if anyone is interested: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M18-FUEL-120MPH-450CFM-18-Volt-Lith-Ion-Brushless-Cordless-Handheld-Blower-w-Two-4-0Ah-Batteries-Charger-Contractor-Bag-2724-20-48-59-1840PG/314300464

Anyway, once we get the ash vac and leaf blower in, and make an adapter between the stove and leaf blower, the stove will be quick and easy to clean it and the chimney.


A couple issues we found with our stove:

*First Issue: The door for the pellet box, which is supposed to close off the pellet flow when you want to shut down the stove. It is Very Difficult to close that door when the pipe is full of pellets, thought we were going to break off the little knob handle trying to close it.
Also even when you are able to close the pellet door fully, it still takes more than an hour before the stove burns down. Which wastes a lot of pellets really. And if you got to leave or whatever the case may be, you might not want it burning that long.

So I made a plate with an angled handle that goes into the small side box that the pellets flow into, just above the fire box. I made the handle short enough so I can still close the lid to the side box.
Push this plate all the way over the opening at the bottom of the box, and it closes the pellet flow to the burn box. This way it is much easier to cut off the pellets. And it also cuts the burn time down to around 20 minutes after you shut the pellets off. At which point you can dump the burn basket and let the stove cool much quicker if you want to clean it or ect.










**Second issue: we found with this stove at least, is the draft door... the holes do not align with the holes in the stove! When you want the door fully open (to slow the draft) the lower 3 holes are still half closed. And when you close the draft door, some of the holes are still partially open.




This is just ridiculous really, as how it got to the mass production stage with such an issue is just dumb. Its just a simple measurement and a piece of flat stamped steel with a bolt welded onto it, should have been an easily produced part. Only in china i guess. Wish I had known about these stoves when they were still made in the US, or at least I think the original one's were.

Anyway, going to have to made a new draft door. When we cleaned the stove today, I took the crappy draft door out, and put a piece of cardboard up in its place, and marked out all the holes that is in the stove pipe in order to make a pattern. When I get time, I'll use this pattern to mark and cut a piece of steel and make a new draft door that will align with the stove properly. The original draft door uses a 5/16" coarse thread bolt (if anyone needs to know what fits the original handle), which surprised me really as I figured it was metric.


***Third issue is the firebox. On the very back end of the firebox, it has a small leg to hold it level... but it only has ONE leg on one side... so the box sort of sat at a tilted angle. And was hard to reinstall at times.

I didn't have any angle iron that small, so I just cut a small piece of flat bar with the same height, and welded that onto the other side to make a second leg. I shot some high temp stove paint on it later.






Anyway, that's my update. Stove is burning nice at the moment, house is warm... a bit too warm actually. But when I fix the draft door maybe that will help a bit.

Hope it helps someone